ARod will pass Bonds

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CTStough

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ARod will pass Bonds

PostSun May 24, 2015 1:33 am

He has 10 HR's this year; on pace for at least 35. He could play three more years....

I like the fact that the assumption is that THIS year he is roid free and still bangin. I feel bad that the roid guys aren't in the hall. I don't feel bad that they are being made to wait. But I think Arod could be the guy to bring about closer to this whole sorry chapter of Baseball.

Assuming he's roid free (I know, I know), but if he stays in the game and passes Bonds, while Roid free, it kind of makes the statement that he had the talent to do this all along.
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The Biomechanical Man

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Re: ARod will pass Bonds

PostSun May 24, 2015 9:18 am

CTStough wrote:He has 10 HR's this year; on pace for at least 35. He could play three more years....

I would be shocked if he hit 35 HRs this year, or 35 in any future season. I don't think his body is healthy enough to play enough.

CTStough wrote:I feel bad that the roid guys aren't in the hall.

You feel bad for them? I've never heard that from anyone else.

CTStough wrote:But I think Arod could be the guy to bring about closer to this whole sorry chapter of Baseball.

I assume you meant "closure." Anyway, a 'roid guy into the hall will be decided first with Bonds.
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2cityfan

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Re: ARod will pass Bonds

PostSun May 24, 2015 1:01 pm

It's a catch 22, I don't believe AROD can catch Bonds.. If he really has 3 more 35 homerun season left in him at his age, we will all assume he used roids to do it..

I feel Bonds, AROD and other prominent roid users cheated, showed a lack of respect for the game, and skewed baseball records and should be punished. Not sure permanent exclusion from the Hall of Fame is a proportional punishment..

That said, to me the strongest argument for inclusion in the hall for top players like Bonds and AROD, is to consider the fact that the Hall is full of players who spent their entire career before integration in 1947. Would Babe Ruth, Walter Johnson, Ty Cobb and other put up the same statistics if they played against the great black players of that time, as well as the top white players.. I think their stats are skewed because of this, but I beleive they still belong in the hall of fame.. I know the roid users cheated, the the pre-integraiton era players did not consiously break the rules, but if the biggest crime is skewing statistics, then Bonds, Clemens, ARod should have a special section of the hall..
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STEVE F

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Re: ARod will pass Bonds

PostSun May 24, 2015 1:46 pm

I seriously doubt that Arod will even see another contract after this one is up. Would YOU give him a big check? In fact, Hamilton might find himself in a similiar boat.
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scorehouse

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Re: ARod will pass Bonds

PostSun May 24, 2015 8:33 pm

2city fan, you assume incorrectly 2 things. one that the greats would have played against only "great negro" players. the bums would have played just like the others. also the negro players would still be playing against the other negro players. also, very few negro players played 154 games for 20 + seasons. for example the chino smith 1927season card is for 249abs and the 1920 torriente is for 174 abs. to question ruth, cobb etc. play the 60s,70's and 80's mystery games and you'll be surprised how few players were truly outstanding either negro, white, or whatever. also the current HOF is a joke. bill mazeroski and no roger maris? maz didn't have a single HOF season much less career, but he did beat the Yanks! because there were no negro players is totally different than the steroid abusers.
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The Last Druid

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Re: ARod will pass Bonds

PostSun May 24, 2015 9:45 pm

The pre-integration players didn't consciously break the rules. Really?? That statement takes naivete to a whole new level.

Speaker and Cobb fixed games, as did many lesser luminaries, the Black Sox were just too egregious to ignore. Lot of spitball pitchers threw it after it was banned. And then there were the owners. So when Bonds and A-rod and their ilk get caught it tarnishes the image of the game? I guess the key word is image because it has pretty much always been a dirty business, just not as much overt exploitation of players since the reserve clause went away. And I don't doubt for one second that many of the pre-integration would have used roids if they were available and the payoff judged to be worth it.
Why does no one question Brett's inclusion after being caught with the corked bat?
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CTStough

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Re: ARod will pass Bonds

PostSun May 24, 2015 10:52 pm

1. As to A-Rod (How do I spell that name?) hitting 35 this year... he's on pace for 40. I think it's very possible for him to break Bonds record.

2. As to me 'feeling bad' for the Roid players....
For the same reason I feel bad for Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose. Both those players were great players who totally tarnished the game. I don't approve of what they did, but I heartily approve how they played.

I'm torn about it. On the one hand I think they should be kept out because what our image of baseball is, IS important.

On the other hand, they were great competitors, and the primary focus should be on what they did on the field. (To me, the greatest thing Pete Rose did was have a small enough ego to switch to 3rd base in 1975. He should should be in the Hall for that.)

As to the steroid users..... it was pretty endemic of the times, so in many ways the playing field was even. Plus, those Ball Parks accounted for many of those Home Runs as well- I hate homers and I hate the type of Baseball played from 1990-2005, but these guys were the best in their time period.

SO I'm torn.

Which brings me back to A-rod. I think it's safe to assume that the testing for Steroids is far more rigorous that it was. Plus, this guy KNOWS that if he's caught , he's done. So, I really assume he's clean from it.

If I'm right , and he's not on steroids, AND he breaks the record, I think it's a game changer.
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Valen

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Re: ARod will pass Bonds

PostMon May 25, 2015 12:51 am

As to the steroid users..... it was pretty endemic of the times, so in many ways the playing field was even.

Tell that to some hitter who did not cheat and use roids. Then had to compete against roided pitchers to put up the numbers (probably reduced by hitting against roided pitchers) they did and then have their honest numbers ignored because they paled in comparision to the 60s and 70s HR rates of Bonds, McGuire, and Sosa, etc.

You see it is not just that we are faced now with having top compare the career numbers of these cheaters with the all time greats. I remember Eric Chavez in an interview talking once about how his flirting with 30 HRs was totally ignored because it was nothing compared to the 50+ historic seasons being put up by roided cheaters.

Arod has no chance of being the first of the roiders to get in the hall. If Bonds and Clemens are not going to be forgiven by the voters Arod will not and should not. His best chance is to hope that given enough time voters memories fade and they vote in someone like Bonds or Clemens. After that then you will have the inevitable lowering of standards as other voters will say cheater Bonds is in and cheat big Mac was not much worse so let him in, Sosa was never proven via public test so let him in. Then finally by comparision to these the argument gets made Arod was not much worse and therefore also deserves a pass and a vote.

Frankly as I get older I have grown less tolerant of the whole lowering of standards fiascos becoming so common in all sectors of our society. Everything is overlooked because we do not hesitate to start down the slippery slopes and no matter how bad anyone messes up we can always point to someone else and say he wasn't quite as bad as that Hitler, Mussolini, or Hannibal guy so let's not hold that little bombing misunderstanding against him.

Maybe Cobb and others gambled and cheated. Maybe more than just the Black Sox fixed games. But that should not be the point. At some point we should become more involved as a people and start raising standards for inclusion among those we lift up as the all time greats among us.

I do not know if Arod has 3 more seasons in him. With the DH he just might. He might even have 4 since all he will have to do is swing the bat 4 or 5 times a game. Health from here on should not be a hindrance. And as long as he can continue to hit at least .260 and deliver 25 HRs and 75 RBI there will be someone willing to give a contract. We see that repeating every year. Melky had no trouble getting a contract. Cruz got his. It is just too easy to say he served his time he now deserves same consideration/compensation as everyone else so we'll just pretend he is now clean and hope to high heaven he has learned his lesson and doing all the things he is supposed to in order to hide and cover up his usage so our team can benefit from juiced enhancement.

Arod said he was clean. Then he said well yes I tested positive when I was in Texas but only because I felt pressure to live up to the contract. But I have never used since joining the yankees. Then he got caught again. Then he covered it up. Fought with arrogance the inevitable punishment for his use throughout his entire time with the yankees. He sat out a year. Now he is back. Says he is clean. But if even one of you believes a word of that I have portable chair I would like to give you absolutely free, and while I am at it I want to lower your interest rates as well. I would rather just pretend Arod is a fairy tale figment of our collective imagination this year as pretend I believe for one minute he is performing clean with no help from anything.

And if you want to call me a hypocrite go ahead. You will certainly have no trouble finding plenty of posts from his days in Texas and when he first joined the yankees when I was naive enough to believe his claims of being clean. You will find plenty of things to quote where I was naive enough to defend him publicly. But with all the evidence that has piled up even someone with a thick skull like mine has to finally catch on, realize the truth, and dismiss him. I no longer even believe he was clean in Seattle. His numbers have been inflated with PED for his entire career. Take that away and he might not even be Alan Trammel.
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CTStough

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Re: ARod will pass Bonds

PostMon May 25, 2015 9:11 am

THAT. Was a great post.
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lanier64

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Re: ARod will pass Bonds

PostMon May 25, 2015 12:38 pm

Valen I agree with you 100%.
On another note: What interests me is will Ichiro (a non-cheater so far as I know) get 3000 hits? He has 2876 hits as of today. I don't think he will make it but stranger things have happened. But it would be pretty cool if he did since he didn't start playing here until he was 27. "Of course if you add the 1278 hits he collected in Japan he has 4154.
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