Hall of Fame

Smoltz is a HOF but first time ballot? Not so sure - If he got in, what about Schilling who had a similar career?

Smoltz and Schilling had similar numbers as starters, but they didn't have similar careers. 150 saves to 22 saves is quite a differential.

Not sure I want to get in on the first ballot elite debate. But I understand the concept. I might not argue that maybe he should not have been first ballot. I think his first ballot candidacy was helped somewhat by some writers refusing to consider the PED guys for their ballot.

But as to whether he should be in the HOF in my opinion absolutely YES. Whether on his second or third try or whatever for those who care about such things do not know or have strong opinion. I remember him being one of the top starters in the league for over a decade before the injury sidelined him for a year in 2000. and I remember him being one of the best if not the best closer during the 3+ years he was a closer. And then he returned to the rotation and was again an allstar quality starter. Basically it was what did you need? You need a starter? You need a closer? Regardless of the question Smoltz was the answer.

He was a better pitcher than Schilling and as good or better than anyone else who pitched during his 20 year career. There was never any doubt in my mind during that Atlanta run that it was fueled by 3 future HOF pitchers.

I think argument is kind of a waste. As long as players are kept out for various idiotic reasons like steroids and gambling then it has become less special because of a good number of the voters have to take into consideration..." a players integrity"....yeah that's a joke. Cobb had a lot of integrity when he was running into the stands and beating the hell out of fans. lol So hopefully at some point ....the holyier than thou voters will pull their heads out of their butts and put in who belongs with out question. I mean players have been cheating in the game forever...spit balls, emory boards, uppers.....just to name a few. So I pray the baseball Gods will let in Barry, Roger, Bags, Piazza, and Pete. Then figure out how in the world Bill Maz got in?

Smoltz is a HOF but first time ballot? Not so sure - If he got in, what about Schilling who had a similar career?

Smoltz and Schilling had similar numbers as starters, but they didn't have similar careers. 150 saves to 22 saves is quite a differential.

If Mussina had been a closer for a few years like Smoltz he might have had the saves as well - He was a quality pitcher just like Smoltz. I don't think that Smoltz should get any extra credit for being a closer. Schilling could have closed for a few years and racked up saves as well.

Schilling DID close for the Red Sox some in 2005. He wasn't very good at it. (He was coming off injury, so they tried his hand at closing when he wasn't really healthy.)

One could argue that Schilling wasn't any good in 2005 because of the remaining effects of an ankle injury suffered at the end of 2004. He pitched brilliantly in the playoffs through an injury that would have certainly landed him on the DL during the regular season. If he hadn't pitched through the original injury, he probably wouldn't have tried his hand at closing.
And Schilling's gut appeared to be properly inflated.

If Mussina had been a closer for a few years like Smoltz he might have had the saves as well - He was a quality pitcher just like Smoltz. I don't think that Smoltz should get any extra credit for being a closer. Schilling could have closed for a few years and racked up saves as well.

Of course Smoltz should get credit for being a closer, and it's not extra. A closer is a very important position, and Smoltz was excellent at it for an extended period of time. Not giving him credit for being a closer would be like not giving Yount credit for his time at shortstop or centerfield. A player is inducted for all of his accomplishments, not just his accomplishments at a particular position. Smoltz's 213 wins and 150 saves--among other things--do add up to a HOF career.

Mussina and Schilling were great pitchers, but you can't play the "if" game when inducting players into the HOF. It would be like saying Mussina could have won 40 more games if he hadn't retired early. Players are inducted for what they accomplished, not what they might have accomplished.

Smoltz is a hall of famer for sure in my opinion. He won 213 games while not pitching for 5 seasons as a starting pitcher. One of those seasons he missed completely and the next one he returned slowly out of the bullpen. Then over the next 3 seasons he was one of if not the most dominant closer in baseball. Then he proceeds to return to the rotation for three very good seasons. He was hands down the best pitcher in the post season for the Braves. Glavine compiled more numbers but in my opinion Smoltz was the better overall pitcher of the two. A 15-4 postseason record should count for something. Oh and he struck out over 3,000 batters. 213 wins with 154 saves to go along with everything. Yes that is a hall of famer to me.

Smoltz is a HOF but first time ballot? Not so sure - If he got in, what about Schilling who had a similar career?

Smoltz and Schilling had similar numbers as starters, but they didn't have similar careers. 150 saves to 22 saves is quite a differential.

If Mussina had been a closer for a few years like Smoltz he might have had the saves as well - He was a quality pitcher just like Smoltz. I don't think that Smoltz should get any extra credit for being a closer. Schilling could have closed for a few years and racked up saves as well.

Had either of them closed for a few seasons it would have subtracted from their overall win totals just as it did for Smoltz. Not sure I get the argument here.