Strat-O-Matic Baseball 365

As far as not having any business being there for the flip play.... if you did play short stop you would know he absolutely could easily have been there. You really do not have to practice it as Joe Torre said. I played nothing but short stop in HS and college and I constantly patrolled the infield on throws coming from right and right center and made something happen on errant throws more than a few times....less likely to happen in pros cause throws are much better. But having no business being there....that is just not true.

If your guy playing 2nd goes out for the relay, who covers 2nd?

Like you said, this is the pros. They don't need double relays.

I'd like to somehow go back and watch that entire play strictly focusing on Jeter. My guess is he was spectating...

Derek Jeter = Tom Brady

Same thing, different town, different sport. Brady is no Peyton, Marino, or Johnny U, but ask any Patriots fan and he is god.

I just rewatched the flip play, which is here:

http://m.mlb.com/video/v3134880/nyyoak- ... conic-flip

The camera doesn't follow Jeter (why would it?), but if you watch the flight of the ball and the advance of the runners, and know who is in RF and who is on first base, and keep a peripheral eye on the pitcher, Mussina, I think you can explain why Jeter was where he was, and it shows excellent anticipation on his part.

Giambi had singled with 2 outs. He's a very slow runner. So Giambi's on first. Long is up and he slices a line drive over first base that lands just fair and then kicks into the big foul territory in Oakland Coliseum. The RF is Shane Spencer, who really has a LFs arm. Spencer has a long run into the foul corner to get the erratically bouncing ball and has to turn and make a tough throw to home to have a chance to nail Giambi at the plate. The speedier Long is already motoring around 2nd and heading for 3rd. Spencer's only chance is to try to get the lumbering Giambi on the shorter throw to home.

Spencer in RF overthrows the cutoff man, Martinez at 1B, and the throw is weak and offline. Mussina, who should be backing up Tino, is nowhere to be seen. Jeter has no reason to cover 2nd (Long is going full tilt toward 3rd) and has cruised into position to back up Spencer's throw, just in case. When the throw does prove to be rather weak and off-line—Jeter fielded it in foul territory—Jeter sprints for it, nabs it, and does a quick turn and accurate flip to Posada at the plate. Posada makes a quick turn and tag to nab Giambi.

Now, what I see when I study the film is that Jeter is showing outstanding game sense and anticipation. He's taken into account that Giambi is slow enough to be caught at the plate. He's noted the flight of the ball and realizes that Spencer has a tough throw from the deep RF corner. He knows Spencer has a dicey arm. He has no reason to cover second. He senses that Mussina is not where he should be, backing up the play. Jeter, having no other role, has moved into position to back up if needed. When he sees that the cutoff man has been missed and that Mussina is definitely not there, he sprints for the ball, whirls, and makes the quick flip (like a double play feed--so he's practiced it) to Posada.

It takes longer to describe the play than it did to make it, but what I see when I watch the play is that Jeter is deeply in the game, and ready to do what is necessary to win if the moment arises. That play definitely didn't happen by accident.

Mussina may not be seen in the play because his responsibility on that play is backing up the catcher so an overthrow does not allow the trailing runner to also score. The pitcher should never be acting as cutoff of backing up the cutoff man.

Excellent analysis on what Jeter may have seen/thought and why he was where he was.

I have always thought watching replays of that play the runner was safe. Looks to me like the foot just got to the plate before actual contact of the glove to the leg.

And if Giambi could, a-not have the speed of a snail, b-have attempted to slide to back of the plate, or, c-knocked Posada into November, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

BINGO!!!!!

ROBERTLATORRE wrote:Derek Jeter = Tom Brady

Same thing, different town, different sport. Brady is no Peyton, Marino, or Johnny U, but ask any Patriots fan and he is god.

Derek Jeter does not equal Tom Brady. Tom Brady is not overrated.

Brady may or may not be Peyton. There are arguments for both. Peyton does read defenses better, but Brady's playoff performances and record have been far superior. However, Brady has not been "inferior" to Marino or Johnny u. Here are their respective lines:

Passer----Record------TD-----Int------Td/Int-------Rat.-------Comp Pct.------Yds/game------SBs/champs
Brady -----150-45-0----363 ---136 ----2.67---------95.4 ---------63.3%------------253.5------------3 SBs
Marino 147-93-0 ----420-----252-----1.67----------86.4---------59.4% -----------253.6------------0
Unitas 118-64-4-----290-----253----1.15----------78.2---------54.6%------------190.7-----------3 Chmps

As you can see, Brady's stats were far superior to Marino's, and he won 3 SBs to Marino's 0. So, unless qbs are measured solely by release speed, Brady has been a superior qb to Marino. Because of the different eras, the comparison between Brady and Unitas is not as extreme. However, Unitas threw a lot of interceptions for a non-passing era and his comp. pct was mediocre compared to Brady's excellent one. So, Brady has been the superior passer.

l.strether wrote:

ROBERTLATORRE wrote:Derek Jeter = Tom Brady

Same thing, different town, different sport. Brady is no Peyton, Marino, or Johnny U, but ask any Patriots fan and he is god.

Brady may or may not be Peyton. There are arguments for both. Peyton does read defenses better, but Brady's playoff performances and record have been far superior. However, Brady has not been "inferior" to Marino or Johnny u. Here are their respective lines:

Passer----Record------TD-----Int------Td/Int-------Rat.-------Comp Pct.------Yds/game------SBs/champs
Brady -----150-45-0----363 ---136 ----2.67---------95.4 ---------63.3%------------253.5------------3 SBs
Marino 147-93-0 ----420-----252-----1.67----------86.4---------59.4% -----------253.6------------0
Unitas 118-64-4-----290-----253----1.15----------78.2---------54.6%------------190.7-----------3 Chmps

As you can see, Brady's stats were far superior to Marino's, and he won 3 SBs to Marino's 0. So, unless qbs are measured solely by release speed, Brady has been a superior qb to Marino. Because of the different eras, the comparison between Brady and Unitas is not as extreme. However, Unitas threw a lot of interceptions for a non-passing era and his comp. pct was mediocre compared to Brady's excellent one. So, Brady has been the superior passer.

So, Derek Jeter does not equal Tom Brady. Brady isn't a god, but he is far from overrated.

Unitas, Marino and Peyton DEFINED the position in their eras, Brady executed in a superior system in a passing friendly era.

My last comment on the subject no matter how much you parse it.

ROBERTLATORRE wrote:
Unitas, Marino and Peyton DEFINED the position in their eras, Brady executed in a superior system in a passing friendly era.

My last comment on the subject no matter how much you parse it.

Whether or not they "DEFINED" their position in their eras (as you say) is irrelevant. Brady was a superior passer to Marino and Unitas...and a superior quarterback as well.

Considering your present comment, and your avoiding addressing statistical facts, it's probably best you don't comment further.