Calling all Small Ball team Experts!!!!

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stratfanSkip

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Calling all Small Ball team Experts!!!!

PostThu Jul 31, 2014 2:21 pm

For the first year and a half playing SOM online, I played nothing but power ball without much success. I recently have switched over to "small ball", but am still learning who succeeds and who does not when it comes to players.
Anyone have what they consider to be the perfect small ball team? My ballpark of choice is Griffith '41.......my cap of choice is either $60 or $80......
This is my most recent team: http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/team/1381815

What I am really looking for is "how to build a small ball team"! Pitching? Hitting? Etc, Etc!

Thanks in advance for any help,

Skip
To many teams, not enough time! Must be an addiction!!
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lanier64

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Re: Calling all Small Ball team Experts!!!!

PostThu Jul 31, 2014 3:18 pm

Skip,

I probably shouldn't say anything because you are in a 60M league with me that starts Monday. But here goes. My first impression is that you have too much money tied up in outfielders you are not going to use. You have over 22 million in 7 outfielders and you'll probably only use 4 of them. I assume it is a DH league so one of the outfielders can be a DH. I have never been a fan of Brock or Carey. They have never done well for me. Personally I would consider shedding them and Gant and picking up a really good center fielder. Remember small ball is about more than speed. I lean toward OBP, defense, and a good bullpen. You can get a lot of quality center fielders for 12.5 million. Mantle, Speaker, Mays, Cobb, DiMaggio, Stearns. All have good OBP, all are 1s, all have minus arms except for Stearns. Remember Wilson 80 can play left. I would also dump Hatcher, Rivers and Oliva and pick up a quality right fielder like L. Waner 27 and use the extra cash to pick up Jim O'Rourke. He costs just over a a buck and he is an A basestealer and good OBP. No glove but he would be a good DH. In a 60M dollar league he will hit .285-.300, .360-.390 OBP, dive in 70-90 runs, and steal 15-25 bases.
I like the pitching staff except for Dravecky. I would also get rid of Molitor unless you want keep him as a DH. You can pick up Ghost Marcell (if available) for three bucks. He will hit less (but not that much) but he will save more with his 1, E11 glove.
I know you can't do all of this because of the number of players you have to carry but it's food for thought. Hope it helps. Remember OBP, OBP, OBP, OBP, OBP, defense, defense, and a good bullpen.

Ed
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stratfanSkip

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Re: Calling all Small Ball team Experts!!!!

PostThu Jul 31, 2014 3:59 pm

Thanks Ed!! And the fact that we are in a league together yet you are willing to help shows that you want the SOM community more informed and hopefully create better competition. Thank you for that!!
So is it not that important to have at least one power hitter in your lineup to help drive in all the OBP guys? As for your suggestions, carey has been very good to me in my last two leagues, but this is my first time with Brock. Dropping both right now I would have money to pick up like Speaker or Delahanty for CF.
To many teams, not enough time! Must be an addiction!!
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CTStough

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Re: Calling all Small Ball team Experts!!!!

PostThu Jul 31, 2014 4:05 pm

There are lot's of different styles for small ball. So I hope you get plenty of comments and opinions.

A couple of disclaimers firs;
A. NEV currently has a forbes '57 team that makes NOOO sense to me, but is leading my division, which is baffling, because I look at his team and I say to myself, "This team sucks balls, what is it doing in first place?". So , obviously, I know but a little.
B. My early teams were in Forbes 09, I'm currently winding down on Forbes '57.
C. My info is based on ATG7 and a sample of 21 teams
D. I play only 80m no DH.

I went though a few evolutions line up wise, but I'll discuss my pitching first.

1. I have three starting styles- A five man 12.50 m rotation or a five man 19m dollar rotation and a "it's too complicated to talk about" rotation.The first version will net about 800 innings and pitch and about 95 decisions; with w/l going anywhere from 46-49 to 57-38 depending how well I manage the rest of my team. The second version involves a baddass starter, who, hopefully, picks up 250 innings and 20 wins to 9, or less, losses.
(2.50 EX- Conaly, Donald, Gabler, Hardin, Nuxall, Bordi, Moret, Hendrix tend to be my black and blue crew)
2. I try to get two bad ass relievers and pitch them until they explode into dust, about 230 innings each. One lefty, one righty. 3 cheap ass specialists, 2R, 1L; together this crew will pick up the rest of the wins to 90+ and 600 plus innings.

With version one, I'll lead the league in hitting; with version two , I'll lead it in pitching. If it's an off year, it's a Darwinian struggle for survival.

Onto the much more fun subject of hitting.

My line-ups have evolved from
mega-speed/obp/great fielding to
somewhat fast/very good obp/insane xtra base hits/ god awful fielding
I had good success with the former, phenomenal success with the latter.

My general strategy is to get 8 guys who hit, no let up in the lineup for opposing pitchers; alternate left and right.

This presents some problems, many problems, in creating that line-up- starting with catcher.
C- There are only 3 full-time catchers I like for my hitting line-up- Bresnahan, Mackey and O. Johnson. Mackey is definitely the best mix of pros and cons. There are a gagillian platoons, but they suck at production.
1B- Utley
2B- Cheap and ugly lead off guy- Backman/Wiggins or Randolph
SS- Dahlen or Bush to leadoff, or Wagner
3B- Delahanty/Wilson
RF- Thompson/ Chino
CF- Brown/Reiser
LF- A crap ton of options

All the positions besides LF give me nothing but headaches and misery, which is why I'm starting to try some different things small ball wise. But these banger teams have done really well. I take a perverse pride in putting up 20 runs with nothing but doubles and triples.

I'm kind of loathe about putting up links , but my 'hands of stone' team is just too much fun to be selfish with.

http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/team/1379748

This team is somehow 5 games in first place after 114 games. I do NOT expect them to finish in first.
They have committed 149 errors, and spent 110 days on the DL.
My relief staff is playing sub par and some of my hitters are having less than stellar years(thank god for Zimmerman) despite this, they are leading in hitting and 6th in runs allowed.
They are easily my favorite team, 'cause they are so jacked up.
Last edited by CTStough on Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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stratfanSkip

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Re: Calling all Small Ball team Experts!!!!

PostThu Jul 31, 2014 4:16 pm

WOW! After looking at that team I cant think of anything else to say CT!! There is definitely a different thought process that goes into playing NO DH leagues. To much work for me, reason being I only play DH leagues!!

Thank you very much for your input!!!
To many teams, not enough time! Must be an addiction!!
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lanier64

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Re: Calling all Small Ball team Experts!!!!

PostThu Jul 31, 2014 4:20 pm

stratfanSkip wrote:

So is it not that important to have at least one power hitter in your lineup to help drive in all the OBP guys


I hear ya Skip. I agree you need guys to drive in guys who walk and hit singles but you have Trosky and Mays, DiMaggio, and Stearns et. all... have power. But remember in small ball doubles and triples are also power so yes guys like Delahanty, Speaker and Sam Thompson have good Small Ball power.

Ed
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stratfanSkip

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Re: Calling all Small Ball team Experts!!!!

PostThu Jul 31, 2014 4:30 pm

Here is what is available for top priced CF'ers in this current league:

Mays, Willie (1955) NYG-post R CF 1(-4)e8 580 123 185 18 13 51 127 79 60 24 4 A 1-17 .319 .400 .659 1 1L 10.42M
Stearnes, Turkey (NeL) NeL L CF 1(0)e7 573 164 207 37 17 36 126 63 69 19 13 B 1-16 .361 .425 .674 1 2L 10.41M
Griffey Jr., Ken (1993) SEA-exp L CF 1(-4)e5 582 113 180 38 3 45 109 96 91 17 9 B 1-17 .309 .408 .617 1 E 10.15M
Speaker, Tris (1920) CLE-db L CF 1(-1)e6 552 137 214 50 11 8 107 97 13 10 13 C 1-17 .388 .483 .562 1 E 10.06M
Dimaggio, Joe (1939) NYY-pre R CF 1(0)e5 462 108 176 32 6 30 126 52 20 3 0 C 1-14 .381 .448 .671 1 2L 10.01M
Cobb, Ty (1912) DET-db L CF 2(0)e12 553 120 226 30 23 7 83 43 0 61 0 AA 1-17 .409 .456 .584 1 E 9.99M
Griffey Jr., Ken (1994) SEA-exp L CF 1(-4)e7 433 94 140 24 4 40 90 56 73 11 3 B 1-17 .323 .402 .674 1 1R 9.91M
Cedeno, Cesar (1972) HOU-exp R CF 1(-4)e6 559 103 179 39 8 22 82 56 62 55 21 AA 1-17 .320 .385 .537 1 E 9.75M
Simmons, Al (1929) PHA-pre R CF 2(-1)e3 581 114 212 41 9 34 157 31 38 4 2 C 1-13 .365 .398 .642 1 E 9.73M
Snider, Duke (1955) BKN-post L CF 1(-3)e5 538 126 166 34 6 42 136 104 87 9 7 C 1-15 .309 .418 .628 1 1R 9.66M
Heilmann, Harry (1921) DET-pre R CF 3(0)e6 602 114 237 43 14 19 139 53 37 2 6 E 1-11 .394 .444 .606 1 E 9.27M
Griffey Jr., Ken (1997) SEA-exp L CF 1(-3)e7 608 125 185 34 3 56 147 76 121 15 4 B 1-15 .304 .382 .646 1 4R 9.24M
Jackson, Joe (1911) CLE-db L CF 2(-3)e6 571 126 233 45 19 7 83 56 0 41 0 A 1-17 .408 .468 .590 1 6R 9.16M
Lynn, Fred (1979) BOS-exp L CF 1(-2)e6 531 116 177 42 1 39 122 82 79 2 2 D 1-15 .333 .423 .637 1 6R 9.13M
Edmonds, Jim (2004) STL-exp L CF 1(-2)e5 498 102 150 38 3 42 111 101 150 8 3 C 1-13 .301 .418 .643 1 E 9.08M
Ott, Mel (1929) NYG-pre L CF 2(-2)e8 545 138 179 37 2 42 151 113 38 6 0 C 1-13 .328 .440 .635 1 E 9.05M
Hamilton, Billy (1894) PHI-db L CF 1(+3)e9 558 198 225 25 15 4 90 128 19 100 0 AAA 1-17 .403 .521 .523 0 E 9.00M
Mantle, Mickey (1959) NYY-post S CF 1(-3)e2 541 104 154 23 4 31 75 93 126 21 3 A 1-17 .285 .390 .514 1 1R 8.96M
Medwick, Joe (1937) STL-pre R CF 4(+1)e3 633 111 237 56 10 31 154 41 50 4 0 C 1-14 .374 .414 .641 1 E 8.95M
Heilmann, Harry (1925) DET-pre R CF 3(0)e6 573 97 225 40 11 13 134 67 27 6 6 C 1-13 .393 .456 .569 1 E 8.95M
Aaron, Hank (1957) MIL-post R CF 3(-2)e7 615 118 198 27 6 44 132 57 58 1 1 E 1-14 .322 .378 .600 1 3L 8.90M
Simmons, Al (1925) PHA-pre R CF 2(-1)e10 654 122 253 43 12 24 129 35 41 7 14 C 1-14 .387 .417 .599 1 E 8.85M
Delahanty, Ed (1901) PHI-db R CF 1(-3)e9 542 106 192 38 16 8 108 65 0 29 0 A 1-17 .354 .427 .528 1 E 8.79M
Murcer, Bobby (1972) NYY-exp L CF 1(-2)e3 585 102 171 30 7 33 96 63 67 11 9 C 1-15 .292 .361 .537 1 4R 8.61M
Reiser, Pete (1941) BKN-pre L CF 1(-5)e7 536 117 184 39 17 14 76 46 71 4 0 D 1-17 .343 .406 .558 1 5R 8.56M
Brown, Willard (NeL) NeL R CF 2(-2)e14 506 123 181 37 14 21 98 35 29 25 14 A 1-15 .358 .399 .611 1 E 8.55M
Davis, Eric (1987) CIN-exp R CF 1(-3)e5 474 120 139 23 4 37 100 84 134 50 6 AA 1-17 .293 .399 .593 1 5L 8.38M
Puckett, Kirby (1988) MIN-exp R CF 1(-4)e5 657 109 234 42 5 24 121 23 83 6 7 C 1-17 .356 .375 .545 0 3L 8.38M
Winfield, Dave (1979) SD-exp R CF 3(-4)e8 597 97 184 27 10 34 118 85 71 15 9 A 1-16 .308 .395 .558 1 3L 8.28M
Ott, Mel (1936) NYG-pre L CF 2(-2)e3 534 120 175 28 6 33 135 111 41 6 0 C 1-13 .328 .448 .588 1 E 8.25M
Wright, Wild Bill (NeL) NeL S CF 2(-2)e6 543 120 188 23 13 19 95 59 33 33 11 AA 1-17 .346 .410 .541 1 4L 8.18M
Jones, Andruw (2005) ATL-exp R CF 1(-4)e2 586 95 154 24 3 51 128 64 112 5 3 D 1-13 .263 .347 .575 1 2R 8.05M
Torriente, Cristobal (NeL) NeL L CF 1(-4)e7 511 119 181 36 12 11 88 72 44 21 12 A 1-15 .354 .434 .536 1 5R 7.98M
Murcer, Bobby (1971) NYY-exp L CF 2(-2)e6 529 94 175 25 6 25 94 91 60 14 8 B 1-15 .331 .427 .543 1 1R 7.94M
Maris, Roger (1961) NYY-post L CF 3(-3)e9 590 132 159 16 4 61 142 94 67 0 0 E 1-14 .269 .372 .620 1 4R 7.88M
Rogan, Bullet Joe (NeL) NeL R CF 2(-1)e14 367 92 135 19 11 11 57 44 44 18 10 A 1-15 .367 .442 .570 1 4L 7.86M
Kelly, King (1886) CHC-db R CF 4(-4)e13 451 155 175 32 11 4 79 83 33 53 0 AA 1-17 .388 .483 .534 1 E 7.83M
Giles, Brian (2002) PIT-exp L CF 3(+1)e8 497 95 148 37 5 38 103 135 74 15 6 B 1-13 .298 .450 .622 1 5R 7.82M
Henderson, Rickey (1985) NYY-exp R CF 2(0)e12 547 146 172 28 5 24 72 99 65 80 10 AA 1-17 .314 .419 .516 1 5L 7.80M
To many teams, not enough time! Must be an addiction!!
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lanier64

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Re: Calling all Small Ball team Experts!!!!

PostThu Jul 31, 2014 4:39 pm

Skip,

Here is a 60M league where I won a ring and you and I were in the same division. In fact you created the league!

http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/team/1114451

It doesn't exactly make my point, because there is more than one way to skin a cat, but note two things.
1) High OBP
2)Great bullpen with lefty (Hassler) and righty (Linzy) specialists.

I forgot to mention lefty/righty specialists earlier but I believe they are essential at lower caps and/or when playing small ball. But if you are going to use lefty/righty specialist you need to have a four man rotation or carry 11 pitchers so you can have three other really good guys in the bullpen that you can use all of the time. One man's opinion.

Ed

P.S. I like DiMaggio (41 over 39) and Stearnes but all of the top guys are good. As I recall I had good luck once or twice with Giffey 93. Again, one man's opinion.
Last edited by lanier64 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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stratfanSkip

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Re: Calling all Small Ball team Experts!!!!

PostThu Jul 31, 2014 4:51 pm

Here is a 60M league where I won a ring and you and I were in the same division. In fact you created the league!

I remember that league, and I finished 2nd to you and lost in the semis. Now you had Van Haltren (cf-2) on that team, and his numbers for the season were very similar to what I expect (according to recent results) from Carey!!

I have gotten away from the L/R specialists in favor of the 3-man bullpen, but maybe I need to go back to that!
To many teams, not enough time! Must be an addiction!!
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lanier64

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Re: Calling all Small Ball team Experts!!!!

PostThu Jul 31, 2014 5:26 pm

stratfanSkip wrote:

I have gotten away from the L/R specialists in favor of the 3-man bullpen, but maybe I need to go back to that!


Whatever works Skip. I think the key is a good bullpen when all is said and done.

Ed
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