The Expensive Bullpen Strategy: Does it Suck?

The Expensive Bullpen Strategy: Does it Suck?

Postby bleacher_creature » Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:44 pm

It seems to me that it does. I am only in my 3rd season or so, and tried this once since I didn't get all the starters I wanted in the draft. It didn't work well for me, despite having both Nathan and BJ Ryan, thinking the other team would have basically 6 innings to score runs.

In my current league, one guy (27-42 = last) has like $17M wrapped up in Lidge/F-Rod/Hoffman. Another (31-38 = last) has $23M invested in Gonzalez/J Rincon/BJ Ryan/Hawkins/Donnelly.

Some thoughts:

-HAL does pretty well with cheap specialists as opposed to a $5M+ BJ Ryan. If you just need one or two LH batters put away, the options are numerous, effective, and at a low, low cost. Same goes for RH "middle relievers".

-Obviously the $$ is therefore better put to use elsewhere (how about offense?).

-HAL likes starters to eat more innings that what you might think when pouring all this dough into your pen, even on slow hook.

-Even if you have a mediocre $1.75M starter set on quick hook, a lot of those hooks will come in the 4th or 5th after a 3-run jimmy-jack, putting the score at 5-0.

-HAL seems to do a little better with less choices to make in the late innings (8th & 9th). SO, one really kick butt closer who can go 2 innings and get either RH or LH batters out, is less taxing on HAL's limited intelligence.

I know some have had success with the BIG PEN approach, but my guess is that their starters are well chosen vs division, some of the best less expensvie starters (Bonderman, N. Roberston, Penny), and are typically on a short leash.

I for one, will not pour $15M+ into a pen ever again. I'd rather have one GREAT closer, plus SIX (!) cheap specialists, and five starters.
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Postby 1crazycanuk » Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:00 pm

But HAL won't use your cheap specialists the way you want. The expensive bullpen has bit me in the butt and it has also worked extremely well. You're better off to have Gordon and Nathan I think, then Ryan and Nathan.
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Postby bigmahon » Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:05 pm

You need to use Ryan in the right park. I've won a bunch of titles with the combo of Ryan and K-Rod. Lately, I'm preferring M. Gonzalez and K-Rod. But I almost always have 2 stud RPs...
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Postby 1crazycanuk » Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:18 pm

I was going to put Gonzalez on my draft card but I thought he was too much money for an R1.
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Postby MICHAELSCIANATICO » Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:55 pm

Gonzalez to me is worth every penny.
He has been the most consistent of any reliever 5 million+ range.
The expensive bullpen does work with decent SP.
Usually I try to have two studs, one middle reliever in the 2-3 million range and fill the last two spots with specialists, if possible get another lefty specialist so that HAL wont mess you up.
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Postby geekor » Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:02 pm

a) M Gonzalez has been, without a doubt, the most consistantly stud RP. Wagner is right there behind him.

b) Personally the only way I've gotten it to work is as follows:

1) 2 stud * sp (preferably RJ, but you know how hard that is.

2) 3 good Sp/Rp, Mads, Rusch, Arroyo, you get the picture.

3) 3 .50 sp ONLY

4) 2 stud RP's

(If you can corner Westbrook, you can go 4 * sp's, 1 .50 s/rp set in your rotation so he doesn't pitch, and then the rest sp only)

A variation (if you are in more of a hitters park) would be 1 less sp only to get a 3 mil rp to soak uip more innings. This forces HAL to only use goot RP's, and you have no worries of those cheap specialists getting any bad innings, because you don't need them. If you had, say KRod and M gonzalez, set MGon to not before 6th, slow hook. Set KRod to avoid before 8th, slow hook. HAL has no choice but to keep your starters in for 5 innings. I've done it, it works, but it's hard to get the 2 * sp's. you need them to rest your bullpen in between, otherwise it doens't work.
Last edited by geekor on Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby goredsox33 » Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:03 pm

i have used ron mahay on my 2 current teams and he ha sbeen GREAT!@!!!

i used to only use a stud clsoer and 1 stud set up man
but now use a stud closer....
and a lh and rh set up man...
i have mahay/rincon on 1 team
and mahay/harper on another
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Postby bleacher_creature » Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:07 pm

[quote:fb20ca1ca5="1crazycanuk"]But HAL won't use your cheap specialists the way you want. The expensive bullpen has bit me in the butt and it has also worked extremely well. You're better off to have Gordon and Nathan I think, then Ryan and Nathan.[/quote:fb20ca1ca5]

This is not happening to me. I have:

Politte - RH specialist
Yan - reverse LH specialist
Halsey - LH specialist
Brower - RH specialist
Shouse - LH specialist
Cotts - reverse RH specialist
Benitez - closer set: regular, max 2-3 ip, set up vs R, & closer vs L & R.

Cotts is the only one who sucks, and I've pretty much determined becasue HAL loves him too much, and "quick hooks" him AFTER the 3-run bombs he gives up.

So you guys think $10M+ for two bullpen pitchers is a good way to go?
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Postby 1crazycanuk » Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:19 pm

Well...it's happening to me.

As for Gonzalez...I love his card. But I remember reading advice that 3, 4, or 5 mil for an R1 is way too much. Which is it???
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Postby MICHAELSCIANATICO » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:01 am

Even fatigued, Gonzalez is better than most pitchers.
No HRs on his card.
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