[quote:93e60f6646]The new customer initiatives are separate from my efforts to improve the game for you die-hards. Jerlins put a sinister spin on it, but we're not out to screw anyone over or skimp on our service.[/quote:93e60f6646]
I didn't read anything "sinister" in his "spin" and would be insulted if that dig was directed at me....His first post before being attacked by a TSN guy was accurate and respectful as far as this business owner is concerned...
This game and its improvements have come a l-o-n-g...a l-o-n-g way! But how we got here is much more troubling to me...Change for the better comes in fits and spurts and often has long periods of nothing....Most troubling is that [u:93e60f6646]not much happens *until* the customer base has asked, pleaded, begged and screamed first. [/u:93e60f6646]
For many reasons this job can't be a one man show...It survives, but it doesn't thrive. If there was a collective effort by more than one person we would get much better, much faster results, and not just more cards.
Our new growth initiatives
by PotKettleBlack » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:05 pm
[quote:5599cc1c7f="Jerlins"]I'm heading to my store in a few minutes. Let's make sure I have this correct before waiting on my first customer.
Me: Hey Mike, how's your day going? Let's see here. You have 5 packs of Topps Baseball Cards, that will be $10 please.
Mike: $10? Your sign outside says they are $1. each. That's only $5.
Me: Business is slow here. Trust me, I appreciate your business, you've been loyal to me for so long. But I already have your business, and I'm trying to get new business, so am only offering that price to folks I've never seen before.
Mike: Well my wife is in the car, how about I have her come in and but these for me?
Me: What? That's being selfish. You're just scamming the system now. But I'll tell you what I'll do because you're such a great customer. You bring in a friend I've never seen before, I'll give him these same 5 packs for $5., and because you did so, I'll knock off 10% from your 5 packs, so you'll only pay $9. That's fair, no?
Ok, off to work now. Hope I have this correct.[/quote:5599cc1c7f]
You have this wrong and it's basically intellectual dishonesty to believe that you have it correct. A better analogy would be like this:
You: Hey Mike, how's your day going? Let's see here. You have 5 packs of Topps Baseball Cards, that will be $10 please.
Mike: I know $2.50 a pack has always been the price, and by getting five you're giving me a deal, but there aren't that many people to flick cards with, since a lot of your customers have grown up and stopped buying cards.
You: Well, I suppose I could offer new customers a couple free cards, then if they like that, I can offer them two packs at $1.75 a piece. You know, to get them hooked.
Mike: That sounds like it'd get some new folks in, enhance the game with the new blood and all. But why are you going to do that for complete strangers when you could offer me a bigger discount. After all, in an economy like this, I'm not sure I can continue to shop here.
You: This idea for new customers doesn't really affect old customers. Don't I give you good service and aren't I working on multiple fronts to improve the card experience, including, but not limited to expanding the card collecting community so you'll have more people to trade with and talk to?
I could go on and on, but your analogy is essentially wrong because you are not being charged more (and in economic terms you are being charged less than you were a couple years ago). Instead new players are getting a taste, so they can get hooked, and then drop 3-5 five packs a year.
There is a definite network externality in effect with this game that doesn't exist for a conventional retail business. The more people who are in the community of players, the more benefit you reap as a player. New players means more opportunity to learn from other people's experiments, to dominate people who don't understand the game, to talk baseball with a sabre geek, or a scouting geek.
I appreciate that the existing customers would like to be served more. I contend that we will be served better with more customers in the fold.
Me: Hey Mike, how's your day going? Let's see here. You have 5 packs of Topps Baseball Cards, that will be $10 please.
Mike: $10? Your sign outside says they are $1. each. That's only $5.
Me: Business is slow here. Trust me, I appreciate your business, you've been loyal to me for so long. But I already have your business, and I'm trying to get new business, so am only offering that price to folks I've never seen before.
Mike: Well my wife is in the car, how about I have her come in and but these for me?
Me: What? That's being selfish. You're just scamming the system now. But I'll tell you what I'll do because you're such a great customer. You bring in a friend I've never seen before, I'll give him these same 5 packs for $5., and because you did so, I'll knock off 10% from your 5 packs, so you'll only pay $9. That's fair, no?
Ok, off to work now. Hope I have this correct.[/quote:5599cc1c7f]
You have this wrong and it's basically intellectual dishonesty to believe that you have it correct. A better analogy would be like this:
You: Hey Mike, how's your day going? Let's see here. You have 5 packs of Topps Baseball Cards, that will be $10 please.
Mike: I know $2.50 a pack has always been the price, and by getting five you're giving me a deal, but there aren't that many people to flick cards with, since a lot of your customers have grown up and stopped buying cards.
You: Well, I suppose I could offer new customers a couple free cards, then if they like that, I can offer them two packs at $1.75 a piece. You know, to get them hooked.
Mike: That sounds like it'd get some new folks in, enhance the game with the new blood and all. But why are you going to do that for complete strangers when you could offer me a bigger discount. After all, in an economy like this, I'm not sure I can continue to shop here.
You: This idea for new customers doesn't really affect old customers. Don't I give you good service and aren't I working on multiple fronts to improve the card experience, including, but not limited to expanding the card collecting community so you'll have more people to trade with and talk to?
I could go on and on, but your analogy is essentially wrong because you are not being charged more (and in economic terms you are being charged less than you were a couple years ago). Instead new players are getting a taste, so they can get hooked, and then drop 3-5 five packs a year.
There is a definite network externality in effect with this game that doesn't exist for a conventional retail business. The more people who are in the community of players, the more benefit you reap as a player. New players means more opportunity to learn from other people's experiments, to dominate people who don't understand the game, to talk baseball with a sabre geek, or a scouting geek.
I appreciate that the existing customers would like to be served more. I contend that we will be served better with more customers in the fold.
- PotKettleBlack
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- Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:34 pm
by wavygravy2k » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:36 pm
Where do my friends put the referral code? Does it go in the "Apply Discount" field?
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by bernieh » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:39 pm
[quote:83df9cea0a="wavygravy2k"]Where do my friends put the referral code? Does it go in the "Apply Discount" field?[/quote:83df9cea0a]
No, it's on the page where you name your new team and choose your player set. It's under where you put your team's manager name.
No, it's on the page where you name your new team and choose your player set. It's under where you put your team's manager name.
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by nevdully's » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:55 pm
Look, customer service here is poor sometimes....It's not malicious, just plain unknowing...In many instances not in what is said or fixed or improved but by what isn't said, fixed, or improved....
Ask the "customers" that play fantasim if they've l-o-n-g been neglected....
Ask the "customers" that play 70's and 80's on old severs (or whatever) if they feel neglected.
Ask the guy that posted this question in bold (one of more than a few times we've asked) [b:b41f1343da]What happened to the live chats we were suppose to have? What happened to ideas that existing managers have? What happened to a consistent forum/board presence?[/b:b41f1343da] if he feels heard.
That's just 3 of many examples of customers asking for some type of satisfaction so they can play more...Do you get it...To play more...To spend more money here....Customers...existing customers....but they get ignored..in these cases ignored is about as bad as you can do...and it's been happening in these examples for a l-o-n-g time....
In the meantime an announcement of [b:b41f1343da]big discounts to new customers[/b:b41f1343da] is posted..[b:b41f1343da]They are not taken as two separate things!!!!!!![/b:b41f1343da] Simply put....That's just [b:b41f1343da]the wrong way to do a right thing.[/b:b41f1343da]..
Ask the "customers" that play fantasim if they've l-o-n-g been neglected....
Ask the "customers" that play 70's and 80's on old severs (or whatever) if they feel neglected.
Ask the guy that posted this question in bold (one of more than a few times we've asked) [b:b41f1343da]What happened to the live chats we were suppose to have? What happened to ideas that existing managers have? What happened to a consistent forum/board presence?[/b:b41f1343da] if he feels heard.
That's just 3 of many examples of customers asking for some type of satisfaction so they can play more...Do you get it...To play more...To spend more money here....Customers...existing customers....but they get ignored..in these cases ignored is about as bad as you can do...and it's been happening in these examples for a l-o-n-g time....
In the meantime an announcement of [b:b41f1343da]big discounts to new customers[/b:b41f1343da] is posted..[b:b41f1343da]They are not taken as two separate things!!!!!!![/b:b41f1343da] Simply put....That's just [b:b41f1343da]the wrong way to do a right thing.[/b:b41f1343da]..
- nevdully's
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by DOUGELKE » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:56 pm
Bernie you have done more than enough,but but your old playersw for the most part still keep this game going.I've bought more teams here than most and one of the few that buys the 2000's and ATG. Ihav e more teams and will most likely buy more teams than new players will buy. So I feel a discount now would be very pleasing.I have over 850 ATG alone andover 100 teams2009 and 2010 teams' So you think you would like to keep my buisiness than lose me.
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by beavis » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:26 pm
[quote:f47cbb0aef="bernieh"]we're just taking a step towards improving that front, with classic, simple initiatives that tons of other businesses use much more aggressively than we are.
[/quote:f47cbb0aef]
*clears throat*
How about a link on the TSN home page?
*hangs head, shakes head*
[/quote:f47cbb0aef]
*clears throat*
How about a link on the TSN home page?
*hangs head, shakes head*
- beavis
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by LMBombers » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:00 pm
[quote:1a01675b82="Jerlins"]The first response from a representative of the company was to attack the messenger, not the message, which is often the case when there is no sensible response to the discussion.[/quote:1a01675b82]
1. I didn't attack you Jerlins. I only pointed out that you stated you were going to sign up as your wife to save money on future teams. Which contradicts what you said about selfish reasons.
2. I am not connected to TSN or SOM in any way. I pay to play the game just like everyone else.
3. Have a great weekend! :D
1. I didn't attack you Jerlins. I only pointed out that you stated you were going to sign up as your wife to save money on future teams. Which contradicts what you said about selfish reasons.
2. I am not connected to TSN or SOM in any way. I pay to play the game just like everyone else.
3. Have a great weekend! :D
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by Jerlins » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:10 pm
Perhaps I deserved it after my sarcastic "customer/me" scenario, but 2 "official" responses and now we can couple sinister with selfish and scam artist to my personal description.
I've never mentioned I have been unhappy with TSN's service or pricing. As mentioned in a previous post, I have remained loyal to TSN though there are other "entertainment" venues, some very similar and less expensive. What I tried to bring into this discussion was a view of both a businessman and consumer, being on both sides of the aisle.
Granted, there are some businesses that do indeed customers "first time" discounts, but those are mainly in the service industry. Using a promotion for this situation is in my opinion, shortsighted. I'd consider SOM online more similar to a retail establishment than I would to a service industry.
Again, I'll be purchasing teams as needed, and will pay whatever the cost is, be it $10, $20, or $50. But if given the option of paying $7.50, or $25., I'd be doing a disservice to myself if I didn't take advantage of the savings. Call it selfish, sinister, a scam or whatever else the PTB decide to call me, I call it common sense.
I've never mentioned I have been unhappy with TSN's service or pricing. As mentioned in a previous post, I have remained loyal to TSN though there are other "entertainment" venues, some very similar and less expensive. What I tried to bring into this discussion was a view of both a businessman and consumer, being on both sides of the aisle.
Granted, there are some businesses that do indeed customers "first time" discounts, but those are mainly in the service industry. Using a promotion for this situation is in my opinion, shortsighted. I'd consider SOM online more similar to a retail establishment than I would to a service industry.
Again, I'll be purchasing teams as needed, and will pay whatever the cost is, be it $10, $20, or $50. But if given the option of paying $7.50, or $25., I'd be doing a disservice to myself if I didn't take advantage of the savings. Call it selfish, sinister, a scam or whatever else the PTB decide to call me, I call it common sense.
- Jerlins
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